Styxnet.com

A Cakewalk, a Landlord, and Two Ignored Cease and Desist Letters: A Conversation with Sterling Whitaker

March 27, 2007

The new book by Sterling Whitaker entitled "The Grand Delusion: The Unauthorized True Story of Styx" is being released today. James Deem and Paul Holt had the privilege of not only reading the book, but also having an exclusive conversation with Sterling.

James Deem is releasing a new CD of original music in May 2007 and Paul Holt is currently working on a solo project as well. So in addition to our exclusive conversation with Sterling, we're both making a few MP3s available as well. Enjoy!

James Deem - A different FREE MP3 each month at www.jamesdeem.com.
(Note: James' version of "The Best of Times" is now only available for download with the purchase of his new CD at www.jamesdeem.com.)
Paul Holt - Long Goodbye (2.9MB) - Paul performing an unreleased Glen Burtnik song.

One thing Paul and I haven't really done here at Styxnet.com is tell our "Styx stories." In all the years that this Web site has been up the focus was never intended to be on us. In our conversation with Sterling he talks about how he became a Styx fan and what brought him to write his book. So we thought that now was as good a time as any to tell our stories as well.

James Deem's Styx Story:

I was born into a middle-class family in August of 1969 at a hospital in Chicago Heights, IL. My parents and I along with my sister, who was about 2 and a half years older than me, lived in Park Forest, IL until 1972 when we moved to Bolingbrook, IL. We lived there until the summer of 1982 when we moved into a house in Naperville, IL.

The house in Naperville, IL is where my Styx story begins. The other information is pretty much irrelevant other than the fact that Dennis DeYoung and I lived in the same town for almost the first 3 years of my life. I think it's interesting that perhaps my mom or my dad might have actually stood in line with Dennis or Suzanne DeYoung at the same grocery store or the same bank in Park Forest. Maybe they were even holding me as a baby in that same line, who knows?

I guess it's also relevant in that it illustrates that I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago during Styx' rise from a local high school dance band to a national recording artist on the Billboard charts. Even before the summer of 1982 all of their hits like "Lady," "Lorelei," "Come Sail Away," "Fooling Yourself," "Renegade," "Babe," "The Best of Times," and "Too Much Time on My Hands" were drilled into my subconscious by the local radio station WLS.

Back to that house in Naperville. I still remember the address: 6 Elmwood Drive. My parents were renting to own that house and it was owned at the time by James Young, so he was our landlord when we lived in that house.

Needless to say, it was pretty cool for a 12-year-old boy to be able to tell his friends that his landlord was a "rock star."

Up until this time I was pretty much just interested in science fiction like Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Buck Rogers. I didn't actually buy much music although I do remember buying the 45 of Rod Stewart's "Young Turks." Other than that I listened to the radio and some of my sister's records. She had records like Rick Springfield's Working Class Dog album and the Xanadu soundtrack that I liked, and she also had some 45s by The Police, The Cars, Hall & Oates, and Survivor that I liked.

That same summer of 1982 my mom and dad bought me Paradise Theatre for my 13th birthday and I was hooked! To this day it's not only my favorite Styx album it's my favorite album of all time. I know every lyric, every liner note, and probably every story about it and behind it. I also realize that most Styx fans like The Grand Illusion album better and that's fine. I believe that Paradise Theatre is probably my favorite Styx album partially because it was my first Styx album. But before I even heard the album I liked its hits "The Best of Times" and "Too Much Time on My Hands" more than the hits "Come Sail Away" and "Fooling Yourself" from The Grand Illusion. And regardless of what other fans say, or even Tommy himself, I love the song "She Cares."

I never actually met James Young even though we lived in that house. The house was managed by a man that I believe was named Bill Mueller. So he's the person my mom and dad dealt with.

On a side note, my parents never bought the house from JY. Two years later when the rental period was up they bought a better and cheaper house right up the street at 51 Elmwood Drive where the basement didn't flood during heavy rainstorms. I was pretty much the only one in my family that was upset since we weren't going to have a "rock star" as a landlord anymore.

As my music tastes evolved over the next decade or so and I found myself listening to 80s metal groups like Def Leppard and Dokken while at the same time going back and listening to classic artists like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who. Then in the late 80s I started listening to alternative groups like R.E.M. and The Cure, then grunge groups like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Nirvana in the early 90s. Through it all Styx was always a constant. And in those days that meant I supported their individual solo albums, the Damn Yankees albums, and then even discovering Glen Burtnik's solo albums.

In 95/96 when they released both the Greatest Hits and Greatest Hits 2 CDs with new Styx music and with Tommy Shaw back in the fold I was thrilled, even though I had grown to love Glen's work. I got on the Web and joined the Styx mailing list and visited all the fan Web sites almost daily--that's right all 3 of them. There was a time in late 96/early 97 that the Internet fans were trying to put together a Styx tribute album with songs performed by the fans. I jumped on board and recorded "The Best of Times," although I'm not sure if any of the other fans from that period actually finished their songs.

Since I was proud of what I had done and I noticed that one of the Styx fan sites posted "Fan Songs" I contacted that Webmaster to let him know that I had my own version of a Styx song. So I mailed him out a cassette. Remember those? That Webmaster of course was Paul Holt and the fan site was Styx: Tour Central.

A few years later in 1999 I approached Paul with an idea. I was working on getting my MCSE certification for my job and one of the 6 tests was on IIS which is Microsoft's Web server. I registered the domain styxnet.com and suggested that Paul could move his content to my test Web server and we could also offer Web space for other Styx fan sites. Paul agreed and soon I also deployed the WebBoard software on the server and before we knew it styxnet.com was a community.

A lot went into supporting the server and I got overwhelmed supporting it, so eventually Paul moved it to his server and then eventually had enough with it. Gradually it became a virtual "ghost town" of a Web site and remained that way for about 3-4 years.

Then last summer I got a letter from Styx' lawyers telling me to take down the site and hand over the domain name.

Somewhere in all that time I also became a musician and songwriter myself, joined the Marines, started a career in IT, lost both of my parents, and got married and had three kids, but that's my Styx story.

Paul Holt's Styx Story:

I was born and raised in Tulsa by a pretty musical family – my grandfather was president of a local bluegrass society, and many of my aunts and uncles played and sang in various bluegrass, country, and gospel groups. One of the earliest memories I have is of my dad playing guitar and myself and my brother singing along to “One Tin Soldier” and “Rocky Top”. After teaching myself to play my dad’s acoustic guitar at the age of 8, my uncle gave me my first electric guitar for my 9th birthday. 30 guitars later, I’m still collecting.

I played in several bands over the years – from bluegrass to hair-metal, country, classic rock, alternative, Beatle-tribute, and everything in between, in groups such as THE OVER THE HILL BOYS, RAMPAGE, TIPPERGORE, ROCK SOUP, NOWHERE BAND, and NO DRAMA. I primarily play guitar and sing, but also play keyboards, bass, mandolin, banjo, and fiddle. I write original music as well, having authored or co-authored over 200 songs.

In 1996, I’d been messing with web programming and saw an opportunity to put my knowledge into practice when my favorite band Journey announced they were reuniting and were going to tour. When that tour fell through, I switched the website’s logos and content to my SECOND favorite band, Styx, who had also just recently announced a reunion tour, and STYX: TOUR CENTRAL was born.

One ignored “Cease and Desist” order from Styx and a handful of years later, James Deem made me an offer to move my content to his server for a new StyxNet site and community. Although I was thrilled to participate, time was at a premium as I was also webmaster for Glen Burtnik’s official website, and my involvement in the StyxNet site eventually decreased to nothing. James got busy with his own career and family and music, and StyxNet lie dormant - until a few months ago, when James got the second “Cease of Desist” in the site’s ten-year history, which, in keeping with tradition, was ultimately ignored.

I had given the reins of the GB website to Queenie, who has taken it so far beyond anything I ever imagined. I am now happily re-married, have a great job working for a Fortune 200 company, and am thinking oh-so-seriously about recording that album I’ve always wanted to.

The best thing to come of the whole experience was that I got to know Glen - the ass-shaking, audience-surfing type-A bass player for Styx, and was also lucky enough to get to know the OTHER side of GB – the guy who was ‘living the dream’ and seeing the world performing with a well-known rock and roll machine, but all the while wishing he were at home with his lovely wife and children. It ain’t all wine and roses out there, kids. Luckily, we have Sterling’s INCREDIBLE book to let us in on what went on ‘behind the curtain’. Thanks Sterling and James for letting me participate in this little discussion, and many wishes for much success of the book!

Our Conversation with Sterling Whitaker:

James Deem: Sterling, the first thing I would like to know/ask you about is your background. Are you a Styx fan? And if so, how long, to what degree, and how, or if, it has changed based on researching and writing this book? Basically, what’s your story?

Sterling Whitaker: I was born a poor black child . . . NO, okay I really wasn't. Actually, I'm probably about as close to a "typical", or rather stereotypical, Styx fan as you can get. White, middle class, and a huge, huge nerd. I'm Adam Sandler without the fame or money. Mind you, I'm not saying ALL Styx fans are nerdy . . . but stereotypes exist for a reason, and I fit this one.

I was born in November of 1969, and like probably a lot of other Styx fans, I first came to the band because of a song entitled "Lady" in 1975. I was in kindergarten, and I can vividly recall my mom - who was an active member of the PTA - borrowing my little record player for a school fair in the gym. It was one of those little record players with a plastic case and a handle . . . you could actually put the cover on it and pick it up and carry it around. It had a tiny little built-in speaker, and it had a three-speed dial for 45, 33 and 78. When I got to the school fair, I was really upset to see that it was up there on the stage being used for the cake walk, or whatever it's called. You know, they play a song, and when the music ends, the person who lands on the winning square gets a prize. I thought I had done something bad and it had been taken from me and given to the school, so I entered the cake walk to keep an eye on my record player.

I ended up landing on the winning square, and the prize that I won was a big stack of 45s. It was one of those seemingly innocuous moments in our lives that actually turn out to have great meaning, because among those 45s were Led Zeppelin's "Dancin' Days", Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence" and Styx' "Lady", with B-side "Children of the Land" if I recall correctly. So the story had a happy ending; I got my record player back, and my musical tastes were permanently ingrained. I guess you could say I was warped for life!

My sister and I used to sing together, and for reasons that are now obscured by the mists of time, we formed a fictional band that we called the Patraskys. Yes, you read that right, the Patraskys. Jeff and Joe, as memory serves. A duo, with her as Jeff and me as Joe Patrasky. We "sang", or rather sang along to, all the 33s and 45s that we had in our collection in our "fort", which was actually the crawl space underneath our split-level entryway that our dad had carpeted the walls to. We spent HOURS in there singing along to such diverse acts as Elvis Presley ('A Canadian Tribute'), the soundtrack album to the movie version of 'Tom Sawyer' (I remember "A Boy is the World Being Young" came off pretty well), Simon and Garfunkel (still the kings to me), and perhaps our favorite, Styx. "Lady" was one that we wore out. I learned to sing harmony by going back over that record time and time and time again, singing all the different parts. I now sing in a harmony group in Nashville.

Later on, 'The Grand Illusion' was the first album I ever bought with my own money in 1977. To this day it is my favorite album that any band has ever recorded. There are better albums in the world I suppose, but nothing ever beats that one in my heart. To this day, after having written about music for more than a decade, it is the one Styx album that I point to and think that it stands alongside the best of any other 70s rock group as one of THE defining albums of that era. Track for track, it is as good for that era as 'Who's Next', 'Led Zeppelin 4', Queen's 'A Night at the Opera', or any other album from that period of time.

So yes, I am definitely a Styx fan, a hardcore lifelong Styx fan. I have purchased and supported every release since 1977, even when I was working in the business and could get them free.

How has that changed by writing the book? Hmmm . . . well, I guess that speaks to a larger question than Styx. My writing career has brought me into contact with many of the "heroes" I had as a child; members of Styx, Yes, Kansas, Triumph, Jethro Tull, Heart, Kiss, and so on and on and on. The truth is, some have been great, and some have been more or less worthless, but none of them have been "heroes", per se. After all, what's so heroic about playing in some band? Nothing. That need to see these people as heroic is just a fan's projection, nothing more. I guess I see the members of Styx in a much more realistic light now that I have had some interaction with them. Some have been really great, some indifferent, and one has consistently been a deliberate ass toward me. But it's just another day, another writing gig.

James: You, Paul, and I all know what circumstances brought all of us to even communicate with one another in the first place. For those of you reading this that might not know it was the Cease & Desist letter I received from the band’s lawyers last summer. And this is something that isn’t in your book. To my knowledge Styxnet.com is the only fan site to receive such a letter. Neither Paul Holt, who was the site’s true Webmaster back in the day, or I were really doing much with the site. After reading in your book about all the drama that’s gone on in this band over the years, what is your take on why they’re now bringing the fans into the drama by sending me such a letter?

Sterling: I really haven't been able to fathom why that happened, or why your site was singled out. Perhaps it's because you had a lot of musical content up that was unreleased, maybe that the band wants to keep control of. That would be my guess. Having said that, you had it available for streaming only, not download, and it was all unreleased stuff anyway, not anything that could have been obtained for sale in the commercial marketplace. So I didn't think you were infringing on them, but maybe they did.

I contacted you because I heard about your Cease and Desist and I was pretty disgusted by it. Styxnet was a favorite fan resource online for a number of years, and I didn't agree with taking that away from the fans. I still don't perceive that it had any value to do so. What got accomplished?

James: I too thought that it might be the musical content, but that wasn’t even something they addressed in the letter. Paul had his own reasons for taking most of the content down and that was years ago, long before last July when I got the letter from Styx’ lawyers. Considering there hasn’t been any kind of musical content on the site for sometime now, it’s hard for me to believe that was the issue. Paul has told me a couple of times that he is as he puts it, “done with Styx!” I don’t blame him! :-)

Paul Holt: James is right – I’m done. This is actually the SECOND C&D that this site has received from Styx, and to my knowledge we are the ONLY Styx-related site that has gotten one. I was sent one back in ’97 when they sought to keep me from posting tour dates. I basically ignored that one, much as James is doing with this one, and pondered how idiotic it was for the band to seek to stop me from promoting the band (for free, no less) by posting tour dates when their own site was several weeks behind on posting them. Sometimes they took so long in posting show dates that the tickets for the show had already sold out.

James: Some people have speculated that no one in the band had any knowledge of the letter, that the letter was their lawyers acting independently. Do you believe this?

Sterling: No. The letter that was sent to you was copied to James "JY" Young, the guitarist from Styx. I daresay that action was directed by JY, or if not, he was a party to it. In researching my book, I've heard similar types of stories about JY all along. Not too long ago I spoke to a photographer who has a large archive of pictures of classic Styx, who also shot JY during his solo career with the James Young Group. He was trying to get me to purchase his entire archive, when I only wanted to license a few shots for the book. I suggested to him that he should contact the band and see if they wanted to purchase his archive, since the band could use the shots to produce new t-shirts, in future catalog releases, etc. This photogapher told me that he was afraid to contact the band because he knew other photographers who had shot the band who had received legal correspondence from JY demanding that they turn the shots over, and he didn't want that kind of hassle.

In the interview we did in 1993 Tommy Shaw told me that JY had sent him legal correspondence over the years. This is not verbatim, as I am not looking at the book right now, but he said words to the effect of, "JY had word processing before anybody, and he was always dictating memos and sending out mean-spirited letters. You dare not step out of line because you would hear from him. I used to just cringe when I would get a letter from JY, because it was always in legalese, and mean-spirited, with carbon copies to this guy and that guy, and my God, JY, lighten up!" Tommy's former manager Bud Prager confirmed that he had seen the correspondence in question.

Former Styx road manager Jim Vose, when I asked him about it, said that JY once read a book entitled 'Winning Through Intimidation' and that he lived his life through that principle. Since becoming involved with Styx in 1992, when I first proposed the book, I have heard that over and over. The sad part is, I don't think it's what JY intends, I really don't. I actually think he's a good enough guy, but with no sense of how he can come off sometimes. I think he sees himself as preserving the image rights and trademark rights and public image of Styx, which is no bad thing. But I just don't think he goes about it in the most tactful way, and I don't think he has any sense of how it feels to be on the receiving end of it. I think he only wants to retain control of the public image of Styx through controlling the naming rights and imaging rights of the band, and he may not realize that he can come off as harsh and arrogant in the process, which is how people think of him once they have been on the other end of it. That's just my opinion, but it's based on quite a bit of observation and discussion with those who have dealt with it.

James: Were they thinking I would just roll over and give them exactly what they wanted? I think it’s important on my part to say that I would have been willing to remove anything they didn’t approve of and post any disclaimer they asked me to, but I think they took it too far by asking me to hand over the Styxnet.com domain name and sign their document. I have loved this band’s music over the years, when they were together, when they were solo, side projects, everything, and hence the reason Paul and I put Styxnet.com together. Personally that was all Styx was to me. Perhaps when I was younger I saw the band as what you’ve called “heroes,” but as I’ve grown up and become a musician and songwriter myself and dealt with people in the industry, I’ve realized that they’re all too human and quite frankly I don’t have any aspirations to even meet any them. If our paths were to cross somehow I might tell them how much their music has meant to me over the years, like the one time I met Glen Burtnik, but that’s it. To this day no one from the band, their management, or their lawyers has contacted me in any way other than that initial letter. Maybe they think they screwed up and they just want it to disappear. Either that or they’re planning on going in for the kill at a later date! :-) Who knows? I’m sure Paul has his own take on all this too. What’s yours?

Sterling: I thought the letter you received was unnecessarily harsh in its language and unreasonable in its demands, which is why I contacted you after I read it posted were your site used to be. They were essentially objecting to a few small design elements of your site, but instead of making any attempt at being tactful or treating you with any simple human respect after years and years of your site promoting the band and its interests, they basically said, "Take down your site, and by the way, you also have to sign over your domain name - which you came up with, paid for and own outright as your intellectual and actual property - to us." That's bullshit, frankly, and the wrong way to go about it. If they had simply said, "Hey, look, your site is a great fan resource and you have done a lot to promote the band and its agenda, but you need to make a few changes to comply with trademark law," I'd bet you would have done so in a second and with no complaint, right? But they didn't; instead, they treated you backhanded arrogance that borders on contempt. I've seen this before with other people, and it just doesn't fly with me. I'm really sorry that most of the really great content that used to reside on Styxnet.com is no longer available for Styx fans to enjoy. Like I said, I don't see the benefit. I'm going to take a wild guess that you no longer buy new Styx releases, right? Congratulations, guys, on alienating yet another lifelong fan for no apparent reason.

James: You’re exactly right. I purchased each and every Styx-related release from Kilroy Was Here through Big Bang Theory right when they came out. That includes vinyl, cassette, CD, etc. I was even dumb enough that I bought those stupid cash-in releases like Lady, Extended Versions, 20th Century Masters and Yesterday and Today. But that all stopped when One with Everything came out on CD and DVD. I was of course curious so I listened to the album for free online through Rhapsody and I rented the DVD by signing up for one of those free 2 week trials at Netflix. The band may have gotten some kind of small compensation from Rhapsody and Netflix due to me, but it makes me feel good that not a penny came out of my pocket.

So tell us, why a book about Styx now? Do you think many people still care about this band outside of the die hard fans? And from an interest and sales perspective, do you think it would have been better to write and release a book like this earlier in the band’s career? For instance, what if a book like yours was written back in the 80s; either around 1984 when the band was coming off the Kilroy Was Here tour and starting on their individual solo careers, or perhaps even toward the end of the decade when their solo careers were winding down and both the Damn Yankees and Edge of the Century albums were released?

Sterling: Now is when it came together for me, I guess is the real answer.

I certainly think that from an easy casual sales perspective, the time to do this would have been between 1979 and 1981, when the band was at its true peak. However, any such book would have been doomed to be a "puff piece", an incomplete look at the band at best. The members would not have been capable of telling the truth at that time. Too much was at stake. Also, I was eleven then, LOL, and not really such a hard-bitten journalist.

I actually conceived the notion of a Styx biography in 1992, right after Styx did the 'Edge of the Century' album and tour. I was working in Atlanta for some indie publications there, and Damn Yankees came to town. It was a side project of Styx - actually a "supergroup" comprised of members of Styx, Night Ranger and Ted Nugent - that contained my favorite Styx member, Tommy Shaw. Tommy had recently been famously kicked out of Styx' back stage after trying to see the band in concert with his replacement, Glen Burtnik, and I asked him about it in passing. He was hesitant, and that tipped me off that there was more story there. Being the enterprising writer, with Styx having had a Gold record and a Top Five single, and Damn Yankees having had a Double Platinum album, I came up with the idea of a Styx bio right then and there. I sent out interview requests to all, and Tommy was the only "classic" member to respond. I interviewed Tommy in 1993 for a book that was then operating under the working title 'Rockin' In Paradise'.

Then grunge happened, Styx lost its deal, Damn Yankees lost its deal, and I lost my market. I droppped the project indefinitely.

Fast forward to 1995. I was on the phone with a guitar player out of Chicago, from a band who was a contemporary of Styx. He was friends with Tommy, and when I mentioned Shaw in passing he said, "You won't believe the fax I got from him the other day. He just got done with a new track with Styx in the studio, and he's agreed to a week of media appearances in New York!" That turned out to be "Lady '95" from the Greatest Hits album, and in short order Styx, reunited with Shaw, staged a sold-out reunion tour across America. I attended the Nashville date, one of the greatest shows I have ever seen.

In 1999 I was leafing through the paper and I saw an ad for Styx coming to Nashville again. The picture looked like Tommy, JY, Todd, Glen Burtnik and some guy I had never seen. I rubbed my eyes. Could this be true? Styx, but without Dennis De Fucking Young?!!! HOLY SHIT! I had been out of touch since 1996, but at that moment I knew the lawsuits were about to begin.

In 2000 VH1 broadcast an episode of its 'Behind The Music' devoted to Styx, one of the most controversial and highest-rated in its history. After watching it, I dusted off my old project notes, realized they sucked, and started all over again, mostly from scratch. I retained my Tommy Shaw interview from 1993, as well as a few others. 'The Grand Delusion' is the result of that effort. I think it is appropriate in that now I have the ending that 1993 did not provide.

James: I think a lot of Styx fans, especially die hard fans that started following the band back in the Late 70s, have a story very similar to yours. Do you think that some in the band might perceive that you have an axe to grind towards them?

Sterling: Yes, I think that's possible. I have heard through the grapevine of people we know in common that some of the band members have been very fearful of what direction I would take with this book. I don't know why that would be . . . I have no reason in the world to victimize the members of Styx. But I guess from their perspective, having had such a rocky relationship with the press, it's easy to assume that a writer is out to find fault with you. And maybe it's just human nature, too; if our positions were reversed, I'm sure to some extent I might think, 'Oh shit, what if he talks to so-and-so? That guy really doesn't like me.' We all have done and said some things we'd like not to see in print, I'd bet. So I'm sure there's some apprehension on their part, but I stand by the book I wrote and feel like it's balanced and fair to everyone involved. I made every effort to include everyone who wished to be included.

James: You say that one particular member has consistently been a "deliberate ass" toward you. That basically begs the question, are you willing to say which one? And why do you believe he's been that way toward you over and over?

Sterling: I really don't want to name anybody. I should clarify that the member of Styx to whom I referred is a person I have never even met, so he has not been DIRECTLY unpleasant to me. But he has consistently tried to influence others not to speak to me, not to deal with me at all, not even to give me or my work a chance; and not just in terms of people not giving me interviews, but even talking to people in radio and trying to influence them to not provide exposure for the finished work. Just things like that. No big deal, really, but still pretty aggravating given the fact that this person has not only repeatedly been offered the chance to participate in the book - which he declined - but he has also never read the book and has no idea what I've written.

As to why he's behaved that way, I suppose he believes that a book about Styx is simply a bad idea or that the band has nothing to gain from an in-depth biography, given the breakup that occurred and the years of fairly tortured history that led up to that. From his perspective, I'm sure it's not his problem whether that seems fair to me or not. Why should it be? From my perspective, his behaving that way is partly indicative of why Styx has had such a hard time with the print media to begin with. I have heard for years and years and years that Styx is difficult for writers to deal with. The most circumspect thing that I can say is that my experience bears that reputation out completely from start to finish.

I think the band members' paranoia about outsiders tends to make them defensive, which tends to make them behave in a short-sighted way toward people who might have become their allies in the media, which then alienates those people. It's a cycle that's been going on for decades and is partly responsible for the hard time Styx has always had with the print media. They understand radio very well, which is why they have always done well there, but they don't understand the print medium at all, and have often shot themselves in the foot with writers as a result. Look at it this way: I have a book about Styx. You have a web site devoted to Styx. I would like to get my message across to Styx fans who have a built-in acceptance of your web content, and you want to provide content of interest to Styx fans. So we get together and do this interview, and everyone wins. Easy, right? But what if I tried to bully you into not running certain parts of this interview, or gave you a hard time for asking certain questions, and just generally made this process harder for you than it had to be? You'd be way less inclined to help me out then, wouldn't you? And rightfully so. Well, that's how it works with the print media, and Styx has never really understood that simple fact. If I give you a hard time today, and then I send you my new record for review tomorrow, are you going to give me a good review? Probably not.

Paul: The Styx family seems so dysfunctional - complete with wins, losses, love, death, money issues, jealousy, addiction, and divorce - and your book addresses all these things, but we fans never heard of most of these issues back in the day. How did the band manage to keep all these things 'under their hats' during the band's heyday?

Sterling: Styx was never a band that was subject to a lot of in-depth journalism, so it was fairly easy. All they had to do was keep it to themselves, which they learned to do pretty well over the years. Honestly, the only reason we know about any of that now is because the band members themselves finally talked about it in public, right? But having that information out there now fits with their new agenda, whereas back in the old days it would have played against them.

When Styx was at its peak, the band had a great relationship with radio, but a lousy relationship with the print media, so it made sense for them to emphasize radio as the primary means of granting interviews. That helped them keep control of the content, because radio needs to have a relationship with bands just as much as bands need to have a relationship with radio. So their friends at radio were much less likely to ask any hard questions about the inner workings of the band or the shortcomings or personal problems of any of the members.

Print journalists don't really need to have a relationship with the members of a given band in order to do their jobs, which means that the musicians don't really have any bargaining position with them. They can write a story with or without the participation of the band members. Styx got some positive coverage in some of the local press in some of the touring markets, but they never had a winning plan to get the national print media involved. For a while, during the Paradise Theatre era, they had a great PR guy by the name of Howard Bloom who worked with them to try to get them to understand how the game is played, and if you look at the coverage they got during that period, it's really about the only time that Styx was treated fairly in the print media. But they didn't really learn how to do it properly despite Bloom's efforts.

There's the infamous New York Times article entitled 'Rock 'n' Retail', which was an article about the promotional and marketing side of Styx. For a paper as lofty as the Times to do an article on a very successful, but looked-down-upon band like Styx was HUGE, and the band members should have made every effort to keep the writer happy and make the article slant favorably toward Styx. Instead, the guys in the band didn't spend any time with the writer, which meant that he had to get his story from manager Derek Sutton and promo man Jim Cahill. The resulting story slanted toward the management and promotional aspects of the band's career, naturally, since that's what those guys did. That upset the band members very much, and in fact in some ways it led to Derek Sutton's departure, which began the band's decline. But it was really their own fault for not having given the writer the interviews he would have needed to write more about the creative and musical aspects of the band.

Did I answer the question?!!! Sorry, I kinda got off on a tangent there. My mouth runneth over!

Paul: How difficult was it tracking down all the interviewees - some of them have been out of the business for a very long time. Were they hesitant to share some of the details, or did you find them more than willing to talk?

Sterling: Most of them were easy enough to find. I started in Chicago and found the ones who are still living and working there, and they helped lead me to some of the others. I really have to thank Jim Vose, Styx' former road manager, for putting me in touch with some of the other people in the book and for making introductions on my behalf. That helped me out a lot, and then once you've found certain people, you develop a network and it gets easier and easier. Also, the more you talk to people and they find out that you are not giving them a hard time, the more the word spreads through their contacts that speaking with you is a positive experience. Most of the time if you're cool with people, they're cool with you.

Some of my interview subjects were somewhat hesitant to speak to me on the record at first, and in some cases they chose not to do so at all and insisted that their observations not be used directly, but rather as the source material or corroboration for what someone else said on the record. In a couple of cases I had to quote someone but not attribute the quote to them. These people needed to be anonymous for various reasons.

In other cases I had to work very hard to get the interviews, but then they came off very well. That was true of Vince DePaul, whom I had to convince. He was afraid of how he might come off, but in the end I was able to convince him that participating would provide an opportunity for him to finally tell his side of a story that I felt would otherwise be slanted against him unfairly, and his interview turned out very well. Jim Cahill was not eager to participate, and in fact repeatedly declined, and I was only able to convince him at the last minute. He didn't speak to me live on the phone; I e-mailed him some topics, and then he put together a series of blog entries that addressed those points, from which I drew the quotes that comprise his interview for the book. Todd Sucherman waffled back and forth for a while, then gave me a really great interview, but I'm not real sure how happy he was with the resulting book.

I expected Derek Sutton to be difficult because he is somewhat legendary for his antipathy toward the press, but instead I found him to be really great. He gave me two long interviews and made some nice comments about the finished book.

There were also some interviews that I just wasn't able to get, unfortunately. That's just something you have to live with as part of a project like this.

James: I don't feel any of those interviewed could say that they were portrayed unfairly. Of those who weren't interviewed, particularly Dennis, JY, and Chuck, did any of them give you any reasons as to why they chose not to comment on the record or were your requests completely ignored?

Sterling: Chuck sent me a brief, polite e-mail explaining that he was writing his own book, which in fact is finished and set for release in about six weeks.

JY responded through his manager and declined to comment by citing the settlement of the litigation. Dennis also cited the settlement of the litigation. My understanding is that they are allowed to grant whatever interviews they want, but there might be a non-disparagement clause of some sort, and with things the way they are between them it would probably realistically be hard for them to tell their stories without any disparagement. Besides, they're finally rid of each other . . . why rake over the coals of the past now? What do they stand to gain? That's kinda the vibe I get out of each camp from the people around them.

James: Even though Styx was clearly split into two camps in 1999 when the band decided to tour without Dennis, do you feel this has hurt or helped the band? The reason I ask is because in this day and age it seems as though dysfunction sells. Look at all of the flawed celebrities and movie and television characters you see almost daily.

Sterling: I think the way the breakup was handled has been terribly, terribly harmful to the band in a number of ways. It split the fan base into fragments, for one thing. Also, because the member who is absent - Dennis - is probably the most recognizable to the average fan, both as the principal hit writer and as the most recognizable lead singer, his absence makes it harder for the band to get mainstream exposure on television and in magazines. The band has had to modify its expectations in terms of how to market itself, turning more to daily newspapers in the touring markets as well as the Internet to garner exposure for the new lineup. And since the fan base has split into several fragment demographics now and the current lineup is focused solely on one small portion of it, that means they have to work a lot harder now for the same results. They are getting to the fans a few at a time now, in interviews, in concert and on albums.

Having said that, it seems like the current situation meets the emotional needs of the band members better, for the most part. The guys in the current lineup seem to really want to do all the hard touring that they do, and it seems like they are enjoying the band in a way that perhaps they did not before. There is a slice of the fan base that continues to support the current lineup very passionately, and they certainly are happy with the way things are. So it's not like it's all bad or even mostly bad, but there are several different, very large elements of the traditional Styx fan base that have been permanently alienated by the member changes and the shift in musical focus of the current lineup.

It comes down to how you define success and happiness, and Styx is continuing to earn substantial income as well as please a substantial fan base, and the members are happy doing it. That's not so bad . . . not what it used to be, certainly, in terms of mainstream success, but better than most of us are ever going to do.

James: Did you also try to contact Tommy for a more recent interview? And if so, did he cite the settlement of the litigation also?

Sterling: I contacted all of the members of the current Styx at once through their management. It was through their management that I received word that JY and Tommy would not grant interviews, citing the settlement of the litigation. Of course I already had an interview with Tommy from 1993 from which I intended to draw some material, and in that interview - which was conducted at a time when Tommy had allowed the other members to buy him out of his participation in the brand name "Styx", and he believed he would never again play with Styx - he told a fairly different story from the one that he and JY told in the infamous 'Behind The Music' episode. That episode made it seem like the history of Styx was Dennis DeYoung on one side vs. Tommy and JY on the other, while in the interview from 1993 Tommy made it clear to me that there had been divisions between all of them at various times, and in fact in 1993 he and JY were not speaking and very much at odds.

Given that fact, I felt it was really important to refresh Tommy's memory regarding the content of that interview and to encourage him to grant a newer interview to reflect his changed perspective. I offered to let him read the old interview and re-comment on some of that material - not to replace the old interview, but to reflect how he and JY went from not speaking and being at odds, to being partners in Styx without Dennis, which was certainly a very unexpected turn of events. He declined again through management and that was that.

I asked Styx manager Charlie Brusco if there was any point in my even approaching the other members of the band and he said, "We're not going to tell them they can't talk to you, but if we don't talk to you then I can't imagine that any of them will." So I set about approaching Gowan, Glen and Todd through their individual web sites. Glen said yes and granted a series of interviews through e-mails (interesting that although I have interviewed him extensively for the book, Glen probably could not pick me out of a photo lineup!). Todd went back and forth about participating; it was clear to me that he wanted to participate but did not want to rock the boat with the principals of the band. In the end we set a date for a phone interview, and it was great, one of the most enjoyable experiences of the whole project for me, though in the end Todd was not entirely happy with how the current band came off in the book.

Lawrence Gowan's webmaster referred me to a guy named Sterling Bacon, who worked at that time in the management office of Styx. He was sort of Charlie's day-to-day guy for Styx. I spoke with Sterling (weird that there's two of us with the same name, and it's actually caused some confusion) and told him that I felt since Gowan was the only person involved with the new lineup that had never worked with Dennis, it was very important to get his perspective in the book. Sterling agreed; he spoke to Gowan and e-mailed me to say that Gowan had agreed to a phone interview. We set the date, and then Gowan's phone call on the day in question never arrived. I waited about an hour past the appointed time and then called Sterling to see what was up and could not reach him, and then I got an e-mail from him a short while later saying that Lawrence had decided that granting an interview was not such a good idea after all and apologizing.

So in the end I interviewed Todd, Glen and Tommy (in 1993) for the book.

Paul: Tommy Shaw has gradually withdrawn from the fans over the past several years – appearing at fewer “meet-n-greets”, doing fewer interviews, disappearing completely from the online forums he used to frequent, and even his “notes from the band” are pretty far between these days. You address this in great detail in the book, but in a nutshell, why do you think that is?

Sterling: All I can say is, that's not the Tommy Shaw I met back in 1993. Back then, if you wanted to get Tommy for an article, all you had to do was ask, and he participated in every meet and greet in every city with Damn Yankees' extensive touring schedule. In fact the first time I met Tommy he was being mobbed by fans at a backstage meet and greet. Back in the old days of Styx Tommy was the most fan-friendly member of the band, and he was also the one who did more promotional interviews and appearances on behalf of the band than any other single member. Tommy is very friendly, very easygoing, and relates to people well, so this was a task to which he was ideally suited. I have often observed that he was the best I have ever met at handling the fans.

When the split with Dennis happened, there was a huge Internet war between the fans who supported Tommy and JY on one hand, and the fans who supported Dennis on the other. Back in those days Tommy was the public face of Styx on the Internet, and because of the way everything went down, he caught the brunt of the wrath of the fans who felt that Styx was cheating them by going on without Dennis. You had all these different factions. The fans who supported the new band without question were one faction. The fans who didn't want to give the new band a chance at all if Dennis was not going to be involved were another. There were also fans who gave the new band a chance, but didn't like the new singer or the absence of certain old favorites from the new band's set. Then there were fans who were generally supportive of the new band, but were also hoping that Dennis would eventually return.

There was also one demographic fragment of the Styx fan base that felt that Tommy had deliberately misrepresented what was going on with Dennis in order to get them to come to the shows. Initially when the band went on tour without Dennis, Tommy said in a few interviews that Dennis had "stepped aside and handed him the baton", as he put it, so the band could continue on. Dennis later said in some interviews that he had done no such thing, saying that Tommy and JY had conspired to exclude him and remove him from the band. At some point in there Tommy announced that the new lineup with Lawrence Gowan would become the permanent Styx lineup, and that's when the shit hit the fans, one might say. Some of those who had already paid to see the new lineup because they wanted to support Styx, and they thought that this was a temporary situation and that Dennis was to return, felt betrayed, and they took it out on Tommy specifically. The Internet wars were really brutal and Tommy was right in the middle of all of it.

I've heard through the grapevine of people that we know in common that he took that very badly. Tommy's a sensitive guy, actually reasonably shy off stage, and I don't think he was expecting that kind of violently negative reaction from his fans, and he wasn't prepared to deal with it. Right around that time is when he started to withdraw from the meet and greets, and his participation in the online forums ceased altogether. He stopped giving interviews for the most part, a task that JY has now inherited. For the last several years everyone I know in the Styx camp has kinda told me the same story; that Tommy is just not as available as he used to be, that he is isolated and increasingly paranoid and suspicious of outsiders. In my book, Glen Burtnik says that Tommy is "the new Dennis", by which he means that Tommy, as the star of Styx now that Dennis is gone, is now the golden boy that everyone is afraid to say 'no' to, and that as a result he is more and more out of touch because people are afraid to share anything with him that might upset him. That's what I hear from other Styx insiders as well.

I know Tommy is prone to depression, and when people tell me things like that, it makes me hope that he's all right. Like any artist, Tommy's not without his quirks and conceits, but I've always liked him. My interview with him was a really great experience, and the little bit of contact I had in following up with him was always enjoyable. I like Tommy and just hope that he is okay.

Paul: Glen Burtnik has said some very harsh things in the past about Dennis DeYoung, yet there he is appearing onstage with Dennis performing some “lost classics” from the post-EOTC era. What do you make of this?

Sterling: Glen kinda let his emotions get the best of him during that period from 1999 to 2003, got too caught up in "defending the team", as it were, and said a lot of angry things about Dennis as a result. I can understand that frustration, and I can understand why that happened, but it's still a mistake for a performer to let himself be drawn into that kind of public spectacle, even when he feels he's in the right. It has no upside.

When Glen left the band, I knew it would change his perspective on certain things. Time and distance always do. I had interviewed him while the band was still working on 'Cyclorama', and then I re-interviewed him after he started working with Dennis again, because I wanted to make sure he got the chance for his participation in the book to reflect the whole range of his emotions about his various stints in Styx.

Since Glen has worked with the band in such various permutations - first replacing Tommy, then coming back to work with a new lineup that was entirely different except JY, and now working with Dennis in a solo project that focuses on much of the same music - he has probably the strongest sense of everyone involved, of their strengths and weaknesses personally and musically, and how that has driven the success and failure of the band. His interview segments are some of the strongest parts of the book, in my opinion. He has a great eye for the inherent human comedy that inevitably comes from stuffing that many creative egos into the same room, and some of his stuff in the book is laugh-out-loud funny. I always enjoy Glen's interviews because they are so refreshingly funny and honest.

As for him now working with Dennis, it surprised me when I first heard about it, but it shouldn't have. It's really just another gig, one that fits his needs well. It does not involve the constant touring that his second tenure with Styx did, it still affords him some good exposure and income, and it involves songs that he already knew going in, so it's not a huge investment of time and effort on his part. It's a good solid gig that fits his current needs, so he took it.

You have to remember that Glen has NEVER, ever sought to work with Styx, not once. They hired him for 'Edge of the Century' and he somewhat reluctanly accepted. He returned in 1999, but after a while he was dissatisfied with his participation, and left. Now Dennis has hired him, and I won't be too surprised if, after this go around with Dennis, Glen does something else with Styx in the future in some other permutation. All this despite the fact that Glen's not even a Styx fan, per se. This is not and never has been his dream gig; they just keep hiring him, and he's a professional musician. It would be foolish to turn down that kind of exposure and money. Glen knows that, and he's been an asset in all of those gigs. You know, for a freelancer like Glen or Todd or anyone in that position, it's like playing poker, trying to assess the hand you're holding, and trying to get the cards you need to play that hand as well as you possibly can. It's about trying to maximimize your exposure and income while you can. It's as simple as that. So Glen's various stints in Styx have been good for him on one hand, and costly on another. He's never said this, but I'd be very surprised indeed if his current gig with Dennis is his favorite job he's ever had.

Paul: In your opinion, what will it take for a reunion to happen with the band and Dennis? Could such a reunion include JY?

Sterling: When the time is right, it will take one phone call between the right people. That's always been the history of this act; on any give day when they are apart, they are one phone call away from being back together, and any time they are together they are just one phone call from falling apart again. There's just so much history, good and bad, between these people, and it's a volatile mix of personalities to begin with.

Even though both Styx and Dennis DeYoung continue to do reasonably well apart from each other, it's undeniable that neither act is doing more than a fraction of what they could do together. Both of them are up against the audience's natural inclination toward wanting to see an older band with the classic members intact as much as possible, and that bias gets reinforced every single day as we drive around in our cars and continue to be exposed to the body of recorded work that created the demand for the band in the first place. History has shown again and again that you can't win that battle against decades' worth of history and nostalgia, and I believe - as do many that have worked for or now work for the band - that a reunion between Tommy and Dennis is somewhat inevitable. They are tied together inexorably in the fans' perception, and whether they like it or not, that will slowly drive them back together as it always has. At this stage of their careers I would imagine that a reunion would be their end game; a way for Styx to go out, if not exactly on top, then somewhere nearer the upper middle.

JY is the wild card in a reunion. It could go forward without him, I think. If I understand it right, he, Tommy and Chuck own the name now, and if Tommy and Chuck decided to do a Dennis reunion, their shares would carry the vote and allow for the use of the name, IF my information is right. But JY seems very much dead set against any such reunion taking place, more so than any other person in the band, and has been pretty vocal about that in public. So that would be a very complicated negotiation if he were involved.

I think if he were in that situation, he'd eventually relent. I sincerely doubt that he would choose to quit the band rather than take part in a reunion with Dennis. I think he would be included as long as he wanted to be. I also think a reunion would succeed commercially, but would inevitably exact a heavy toll on a personal level. That's why I see it as the band's end game; something they might do once and then walk away from each other one final time, rather than something that would result in any kind of permanent reunion.

But I could be wrong, because the career of Styx is like Wednesday on the old Mickey Mouse Club; you know, anything can happen and it usually does. So I won't be surprised if they announce a reunion and new album next month, and I won't be surprised if they never speak again. I won't be surprised if Gowan and Dennis form a duo and release an album of acoustic covers. I won't be surprised if Dennis joins Shaw Blades on stage for a song or two in some city. I won't be surprised if they drop all of the old songs from the Styx set and go on the road playing nothing but old Pink Floyd covers. Nothing would surprise me. Of course, I always say that, and in the end, whatever happens always surprises me!

Paul: I'd like to talk about John Curulewski for a second. So many times you hear about bandmembers leaving bands *right* before they hit it big - it could be argued that Styx would not have had the success they did without Tommy, but Equinox was on the cusp of making them famous without Tommy. Do you think JC had any regrets in leaving when he did?

Sterling: It's hard to say. He was quite clearly unhappy with the hard touring schedule that Styx was keeping, and unhappy over various things going on in the band's career, so perhaps he saw leaving as the only way to get out of that. He had an infant son at home at the time, so that probably helped him make that transition easier. Having said that, I don't know how in the world anyone could quit a band, then sit there and watch that band go on to become one of the most successful in the world, and not feel some regrets. He lived in Chicago . . . how must it have felt to see Styx grace the cover of 'Illinois Entertainer', or the huge three-part piece the Sun Times did in 1979, while he was playng clubs and still struggling? How do you see the posters, the records in the stores, hear the songs on the radio all day every day, see the band on 'Solid Gold', and not feel some regrets? I don't know. I sure would if it were me.

Sadly, John just never found the right vehicle for him. I really enjoyed his contributions to Styx, but he was rather obviously headed in a less commercial, more straight prog-rock direction, and he never did wind up finding the right vehicle to showcase that. Maybe that contributed to his problems with alcohol, who knows? When you look at how his life played out, it's easy to read into it that he was drowning sorrows. His son says not, others say yes. Again, who knows? It freaks me out to think that he died when he was the same age I am now. That's too early, and that's sad.

Paul: Let's jump to 1999 - the band's last show (so far) with Dennis was the Children's Miracle Network telethon. Did everyone know at that time that Styx was moving on without Dennis?

Sterling: Everyone understood that the upcoming tour would inckude a replacement in his stead. I don't think it was clear at that point that it would become permanent. Gowan was hired as a temp intially, then he became a full member as time went on.

That show was terribly uncomfortable for everyone. Dennis was obviously very upset, and Tommy and JY were upset with him, so there was this huge communication problem during rehearsals. If you watch the performance, it is far from Styx' best, though considering the circumstances it is pretty good. Dennis is definitely far more somber than usual at that show. It's interesting to look back and see how divided they were, but they got through it. I don't think anyone had a sense yet that Dennis would never be back, not at that point.

Paul: In my opinion, probably THE most provocative quote in the entire book was one by Burtnik where he said that JY "seems to BELONG in the same band as Dennis." What does he mean by that?

Sterling: From my perspective, I agree. I think the guys in Styx, whether some of them would currently like to admit it or not, have/had corresponding strengths and weaknesses in a way that made the whole a lot more important than the sum of its parts. Now that they are divided, it angers some of then to even make that suggestion, but from a fan's perspective it is readily true. JY will likely be very angry about that one, though. He is simply dead set at this point to find fault with the past that included Dennis, even if that past was great in many ways. He has become incapable of seeing that anymore.

James: Correct me if I’m wrong but you say in your book that Cyclorama has sold around 50,000 copies, while Big Bang Theory, which was bolstered by the success of the single ‘I Am the Walrus’ at radio, did a little better and even landed in the top 50 on the Billboard album charts the week it was released. Can you give us an idea how One with Everything has done so far?

Sterling: 'One With Everything' has sold very poorly so far. Last time I checked it had not cracked 10,000 units. It probably has by now, but unless something unexpected happens to garner it more exposure I predict it will not sell 25,000 units total. It is the worst sales performance of any Styx record ever released, as far as I know, including the early Wooden Nickel albums. In a way I take it as a fan referendum on the band's strategy of re-packaging various live releases of the back catalog and re-selling the fans on the same songs over and over and over, which has happened quite a lot since 2000. I think the fan base is finally at the point where it is refusing to support that any more, and I hope the band will listen and change its plan a bit in response.

If they're going to re-market the back catalog, they should do it properly by re-mastering the classic albums, writing some great new liner notes, maybe including some alternate tracks or some of the live tracks that have not been released from that classic period. Maybe even enhanced CDs that would include some of the old footage John and Chuck used to shoot, some in the studio shots or some live shots. THAT would be something the fans would respond to, as opposed to just another live version of the old songs by the new band. At least that's what my correspondence indicates.

James: Tell us a little about how you plan to promote your book?

Sterling: I hope to promote the book in two stages. The first stage will involve Internet-based promo such as this interview, a special Amazon promo, a contest through Classic Rock Revisited, an excerpt on Melodic Rock, and my interview with Tommy Shaw being published on Styxcollector.com, as well as a full-service press release/podcast and so on. That initial phase will involve some radio as well, just trying to involve as many fans as possible in the book as early as possible.

After that I plan to garner publicity in each touring market of both Styx and Dennis DeYoung as they tour to promote new projects. I can precede them by a week or so and hopefully get the book included in whatever local press coverage goes on, as well as some radio in select markets. If the demand exists, I may follow up in some strong Styx markets like Chicago, St. Louis and so on with some signings. Styx is doing a hundred dates a year, and Dennis is doing 50, so that creates 150 marketing focal points for me to sell the book.

James: Sterling, it's been great for me to get to know another person with an appreciation for the music that this band created. Over the years it has truly been a pleasure for me to meet and share with the different people who are the fans of this band's music and you are no exception. I think that speaks volumes about the quality of the individuals that are fans of this band. Hopefully you'll be open to any follow-up questions Paul or I might think of, or perhaps answers some questions the fans might have after the interview is published. Thanks!

Sterling: Thanks very much. I have enjoyed this very much. I am usually on the other side of an interview, so this has been interesting for me. I hope it has come out well. In closing I just want to say that Styx is a great, sadly under-rated band that has never gotten its due from the critical elite. I hope 'The Grand Delusion' can go a long way toward changing peoples' skewed perception of this band.

Thanks for this opportunity. I will be glad to answer any further questions.

Paul: I'd like to thank Sterling for the opportunity to do this interview, and more importantly I'd like to thank him for all the work, research, blood, sweat, and tears he's put into this book. It's a very engaging read, even to those of us who thought we knew all there was to know about the band.

Sterling: Thanks! I strove to paint a balanced portrait of a band that has been critically misunderstood or even deliberately trashed, and I hope I succeeded. You know, there are no good guys and bad guys in the story of Styx, or MOST stories for that matter. There are only people that are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I honestly think all of the guys in Styx are good guys in their own way. It's just that the stress of the band's career makes it easy for them to forget that some times.

Thanks very much.